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| Monday, 15 January 2007 | |
Read more about this web site and those who started it. Welcome to the Post-Biblical Theological Seminary Website, a place for alternative thought. This website is a Biblical Theological Seminary Alumni operation. It is not connected to, or sponsored by, Biblical Theological Seminary in any way. Rather, it serves as a warning to any who would assume that BTS deserves the reputation for faithfulness to and regard for the Scriptures which it had under Dave Dunbar's predecessors. As you can see from the quote above, we weren't the first to think the Seminary needs a new name. My wife is the one who thought up "Post-Biblical." "Post" is a pretty popular prefix these days. There's postmodern, postconservative, postliberal, postevangelical, etc. "Post-biblical" can suggest two things relevant to this web site. First, it expresses our concern that BTS is becoming postbiblical, that is, going beyond historical evangelical Christianity as we find it in the Bible. Secondly, since we call the seminary "Biblical" for short, for us alumni our life after seminary is sort of post - Biblical, i.e. post / after Biblical Seminary. This is where we post-BTS'ers can get together and have a virtual reunion. And when you do post a comment, please let us know when you graduated from BTS, what you've done since then & are doing now, so everyone gets some idea of a reality behind the name. This web site has been started by Biblical Seminary alumni Stephen Hague (BTS 1991) and John Ronning (BTS 1979). Steve and John met while Steve was doing his MDiv at BTS, and John was doing his PhD at Westminster. Both of us are "Old Testament guys" - Steve got a PhD from Bristol University (England), while at Wycliffe Hall in Oxford, and has taught at several seminaries and universities here and abroad. John teaches Old Testament as well as the Johannine literature and Biblical languages at the John Wycliffe Theological College in Johannesburg. (The views expressed here do not necessarily represent those of our professional affiliations; we do this apart from our duties described above.) Steve and John have a few other things in common besides being Biblical Seminary alumni and OT guys. Both of us were raised in dead, liberal churches where the gospel was unknown and unspoken, and many of the church members we knew were no more Christian than cannibals of the 19th century South Sea, and neither were we. Having been delivered by the grace of God from such deadness, we cannot understand the allure, the seduction, the attraction, to Postmodern (PoMo) philosophy and neo-liberalism (a.k.a."post-conservativism," "post-evangelicalism," "post-foundationalism," etc.), which seems to be guiding BTS on its current trajectory. Thus the name of the web site. Steve and John also practice a "generous orthodoxy" in a good sense, the way it was urged upon us by the founders of the seminary. That is, we differ on a host of minor matters which are not essential for salvation or good Christian fellowship, while we are united on the essentials, the fundamentals of the faith delivered once for all, and especially in the need to contend for the faith.
No. 1 : Praise the Lord for your efforts, and may He bless those efforts for the advance of His kingdom. A few years ago I wrote a letter to BTS after reading Beyond Foundationalism. I could not believe what I was reading, and that such material would come out of Biblical. Dr. Franke called me on the phone, and informed me in shocked surprise that I was the only one [!] who had reacted negatively to the book ... everyone else was very positive about it. I of course suspected strongly that this would not be the case, so I am very happy to know that there are others who are upset enough to say something. Biblical played a tremendous role in my life, and it breaks my heart to see what has happened. May the Lord turn things around for His glory.
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'>   Submitted by Rick Klueg • 2007-01-29 13:09:32 No. 2 : Rick, Please send your letter and critique to This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it and we will post it here! Steve
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'> Submitted by STH • 2007-02-27 14:36:17 No. 3 : Rick's review is posted at http://www.cbspurgeon.org:80/Articles/selling_the_farm.htm. No. 4 : Rick, The Spring the book came out, I wrote a very long letter to Dave Dunbar and the faculty, pleading with them to take action about this book. I reminded them of the heritage that we were given at BTS (I was one of the "pioneers," a classmate of Dave Dunbar in the first graduating class). At least two faculty members - at that time - had expressed concern to me about the writing and positions of Prof Franke. They told me that a letter was the best thing to do. I don't think the Faculty ever saw my letter. Dave wrote back and said simply, "Yes, that is where I was. I am no longer there." So, yes, there were others who expressed concern about the obvious Barthianism in Franke. I am one of those who is pessimistic about BTS being able to turn around. I believe that Dave Dunbar and John Franke are calling the shots and the Board is with them. I hope this web site does some good, but I am not sure those who are are leading Biblical are going to change. Honestly, I hope to be proven wrong. I have been encouraged to join the fight, but I am not sure I have the energy for it. After the Faith seminary and IFCA battles now, I now face another one. But those were battles against extreme fundamentalism. This is just the opposite. I would never have thought that this would happen when I was Jack Murray and Bill Harding and Gary Cohen's pastor. Can someone tell me that there is hope for a real change? Will
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'> Submitted by Will Varner • 2007-03-22 21:10:45 No. 5 : [For those who don't know Will, from the first BTS graduating class (along with Dave Dunbar), he is a prof at Masters Seminary] Will -- concerning your question, "Can someone tell me there is hope for a real change?" Humanly speaking, change will continue in a negative direction, human nature being what it is (as Joshua said to Israel, You are not able to serve the Lord). Swimming downstream is easy, the sun going on its natural course is to be expected. I say this to acknowledge what great works of God repentance and revival are. There is, however, another consideration. Even if Biblical Seminary continues on its present unbiblical trajectory, our efforts could have the salutary effects of giving the seminary the reputation that it deserves in the church (a world class laughing stock), which could have a number of benefits, including, (1) serious evangelical scholars not giving BTS serious consideration as an employment opportunity (what a way to ruin a resume!); (2) evangelical students going elsewhere so that their view of scripture (thus a lifetime of ministry) is not compromised; (3) past habitual donors recognize that the institution formerly worthy of their support no longer exists; (4) current staff and even faculty who do not appreciate how far gone BTS is in the theology department are awakened. Maybe others could think of some more benefits. In any case, success in Christian service is always equated with obedience, not desired outcomes of our efforts. No. 6 : Great to hear from you Will. It sounds like your letter got about as far as mine did. Thanks to you, John, for your explanation of the benefits of these efforts. I would add another, that is implicit in your remarks about obedience: 5) Our studied and prayerful reaction to this encroaching darkness and error is part of our continuing personal sanctification. It is like the story of the man who preached against the sins of his village for years with no success. When a neighbor told him "Don't you know you will never change us?" he replied, "I also preach so that you will not change me."
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'> Submitted by Rick Klueg • 2007-03-27 06:42:05 No. 7 : We also hope to present a positive recollection of the blessings we received through our classical(oops!) BTS seminary training, remembering and celebrating the past ideals of such, and thus encouraging sound thinking/vision about theological education. This should include efforts to remember the past losses as well as the gains, in order to have a proper historical perspective on the present situation. It also includes a forum for both ongoing discussion of all these things and the sharing of exegetical/theological works of alumni. May God be honored by our actions, words, and sense of humor . . .
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'> Submitted by STH • 2007-03-28 14:25:58 No. 8 : Rick -- great point. Therein lies at least part of the explanation for why some who once knew the truth so well have gone along for the ride on the same spiritual / theological trajectory. The ancient Israelites had a stark choice: destroy the Canaanites, or become like them and suffer what was to be the Canaanites' fate. In NT terminology; oppose falsehood or be overcome by it. No. 9 : I was a Old Testament Masters Student at BTS. I went there because I saw all of the really cool OT classes like Inscriptions, the Persian Period, Aramaic, and I was told that they were going to start offering Ugaritic, Syriac, and other Cool Semitic languages there. When I got there I had a dickens of a time fininshing my Degree, because they were more focused on "PostModern" "Emerging Church" stuff than, a historical, BIBLICAL CENTERED EDUCATION. Yes we have to be sensitive to the modern culture for doing ministry. BUT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think that Biblical is becoming too worldly in the Educational Output. I don't know what happened to Fred Putnam but he was my absolutly favourite professor. I took every class that I could with him. He was openminded but very solidly into teaching the Bible and letting it speak for itself. Paul said that he became all things to all people so that he may win some, but he wasn't a seminary to teach at. There are lots of seminaries out there but I came to Biblical because it was "BIBLICAL" No. 10 : Hello Brothers, After receiving your emails to the Biblical mail list and the ETS list, I came here to see what you had to say. Ignoring the actual issue for a moment, I was very disappointed in the level of a good bit of the discourse. The people at Biblical are brothers and sisters who are doing their best to follow Jesus and as such are beloved of the Lamb. Thus they should be loved by us and treated kindly/fairly even when we strongly disagree. There are things in this site which I think are unfair and unkind. In addition, they dilute the potency of any substantive arguments and undermine the credibility of the author(s). An example or three should suffice: - The current headline which reads, "“I was thinking that for an emergent seminary, Biblical might benefit from a name change ..." While this also raises my hackles, it was not written by anyone at Biblical and has nothing to do with the issue at hand other than to inflame the not-so-thoughtful reader - Anonymous quotations -- between Christians, anonymous quotations are unfair -- anybody could say anything without being accountable for their words - The headline, "D. A. Carson Calls on Dave Dunbar to Resign ". If he said this and intended it for the public domain, let him say so publicly. Right now the story is 3rd hand and thus hardly fair That is enough. Please note that in this post I am not agreeing nor disagreeing with the core concerns of this site. I am merely expressing my opinion regarding some of the content contained herein. Doug Howell 
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'>Submitted by djhowell99 • 2007-05-01 11:23:26 No. 11 : Doug - thanks for your input, Whether we are "unkind" or not I think depends at least in part on whether or not we are correct in our substantive arguments as to the seminary's defection from the truth. Opinions of our tone that I have received range from "irenic" to "malicious," no doubt reflecting that difference of opinion. Our comments are not directed toward "the people at Biblical" in general but as you can see are quite focussed. The fact that there are many sincere Christians working at Biblical is all the more reason to voice our concerns. We firmly believe that what we are doing is for their benefit, thus is an expression of love, biblically defined. If you feel we are unkind but agree with our substantive arguments, then we hope you will do your part in your own (superior) way to act on these concerns. We'll be happy for others to show us how to do it better. We've made mistakes and no doubt will make more in the future (may the Lord forgive us) but the biggest mistake would be to "remain silent at this time." I'd like to also respond to your three specific objections: - the emergent seminary "headline" you mention is relevant to the name of our web site and can be viewed as an ironic confirmation for it from someone who was commenting on the blog of a visiting professor at Biblical, and who is part of the seminary's newly chosen constituency (the emerging church), which is described as departing from historic Christian orthodoxy and as "postevangelicals" converging with "postliberals" by none other than Tim Keller, whom Dave Dunbar has been quoting to explain the seminary's new direction. The issue of what is the emerging church all about is definitely one of the "issues at hand." - Anonymous quotations - as is pointed out in the article, I'll give you their names if you send me an e-mail requesting them (most of the names I suppose would mean nothing to you, they're just [mostly] alumni); and some of them are taken from comments elsewhere on this site, thus are not anonymous. Further, most (maybe all except non-alumni) have put their names on the "Public Request of Biblical Theological Seminary." Most of those names likewise probably mean nothing to you. - The information that D.A. Carson said that Dave Dunbar should resign is confirmed by three firsthand witnesses. If you want to check my sources, send me an e-mail. Unfair to publish it? I guess we'll have to differ on that; Dave Dunbar didn't try to keep it secret, so I don't consider it unfair to him. If you still think we're unfair, I regret that but hope you'll look past that issue to the substance of what we say and, as I said above, show us how to do it better (and probably be prepared to also be called unkind). John Submitted by John Ronning • 2007-05-02 04:37:53 No. 12 : As one who is not involved in the production of this site, I would like to voice my support and appreciation for both the content and tone of what is here. There is nothing unfair about publicly commenting on public statements and positions as long as the representation is accurate ... which I am confident it is. If anyone is aware of an error in fact, then that should be pointed out and I imagine the authors of this site will correct that. Also, there is nothing unkind about speaking against error, unless we want to consider the prophets, the apostles, and our Lord unkind. If anything, the response to this deadly serious situation has been too long in coming. No. 13 : I also have to comment that your title quote is more than a little misleading. There is no established/institutional connection between the author of the 'name change' quotation and the views of the seminary. The prominence of the quotation suggests, "See, this blog commenter represents BTS" - which is rather silly. Which document/link clearly defines this community's objections to BTS? I'd like to read a 'boiled down' statement without blog comments or quotes without context (for all I know, Dr. Carson was commenting on Dave Dunbar's past heart attack! ;)
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'> Submitted by pldevine • 2009-08-11 01:20:52 No. 14 : to #13; that there is no "institutional Connection" etc. is evident from the "title quote" itself so is not misleading (rather, your comment is misleading in saying so). You say "the prominence of the quotation suggests" -- I suppose all sorts of things might be "suggested" to someone who doesn't read what is actually written, what is written makes it obvious that the commenter is not a rep. of BTS but wants rather to give advice to BTS as a rep. of BTS's chosen constituency, the emerging church. Should be very embarrassing, shouldn't it? As for DA Carson, you can ask him the context of his call for Dave Dunbar to resign if you don't believe my account (or you can ask Dave, who volunteered the information to one of my sources). No. 15 : Googling "emergent seminary" I found this comment on a blog: "A professor of mine at Westminster teaches a few courses up there and is good friends with Franke. He told me it looks as though they are structuring the entire Seminary now around the Emergent movement and Franke since many of the faculty have retired in the last couple years." Structuring the whole seminary around Franke - how encouraging. Here's another: "My cousin with whom I am living is in the LEAD MDiv program at Biblical right now…just so you know, they are the ‘emergent’ seminary…which means less academic rigor and more open ended, touchy feelyness. I’d seriously talk to some students there and read some emergent stuff (particularly Franke and McLaren) to see if that’s the kind of education you want." From: http://randombloggings.wordpress.com/2005/12/21/my-journey/ Here's another (sympathetic) voice: "John Franke (Theologian) @ Biblical Theological Seminary (their whole faculty is here at the convention – apparently they are trying to become the “emergent” seminary)." from: http://pomomusings.com/2005/05/18/ec05-learning-community-truth/ Since these posts, the seminary's new direction has not changed away from emerging but is solidified, even if they don't advertise themselves as "emergent." By the way, even computers think BTS is emergent. At the bottom of the search page for "emergent seminary," google lists "Biblical Theological Seminary" as a "related search." |
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